Wednesday, November 03, 2004

"I'm a rich, alcoholic, frat-boy, born-again Christian and I'm your President!"



At November 03, 2004 10:38 AM, Blogger Matt Wilson said...

We in Wisconsin did our part, but to no avail. Maybe MN, WI, MI and IL can secede and form a new country.

Speaking of, what the hell is in Menominee county? Those guys are a bright blue sun on the state map.

At November 03, 2004 11:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm hoping WA, OR, and CA can do the same. Hey, the Peoples Republic of Cascadia would like to form an alliance with the Great Lakes Union. I'm also hoping with we can welcome the United States of New England into our treaty organization, and leave the rest of corpse to rot in its own juices.

At November 03, 2004 3:09 PM, Blogger Glenn said...

On that note, I've got some post-election thoughts.

At November 03, 2004 4:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's it. If at all possible, I'm moving back to Madison in Ward 34. Over 2500 votes for Kerry and less than 200 for Bush. How'd Seattle turn out, Jon?
I wouldn't mind seceding with the rest of the Blue States as long as we could get a non-aggression pact from the U.S. Bush would just LOVE to start another war, though, so that's out.
Beautiful pictures of the pumpkin carving party, btw.


At November 03, 2004 11:24 PM, Blogger Jon said...

Hey Scott!

I don't know exactly how Seattle voted, but I'm certain it went Kerry's way. I was just talking to someone about it tonight; this side of the mountains was Kerry, the other side was Bush.

I'm happy to hear you like the pumpkin pix. You'd have a blast out here. Hint, hint.

At November 07, 2004 5:32 PM, Blogger Anonymous said...

"I'm a rich, alcoholic, frat-boy, born-again Christian and I'm your President!"

Had Kerry won would you have posted:

"I'm an even richer, formerly hard drinking (but not an alcoholic), frat-boy (same frat), Catholic and I'm your Prsident!"

At November 08, 2004 12:39 AM, Blogger Jon said...

No. No I wouldn't have.

There's a big difference between someone who drinks and an alcoholic and a bigger difference between a Catholic and a born-again Christian. A big, scary difference.

I wouln't want to know Bush, let alone have him be the leader of my country.

My opinion. That's all.

At November 08, 2004 2:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Y'all should defintely form your own nation... or just move to one you'd feel more at home in. God knows, if you disagree with your President the apocalypse is nigh.

At November 08, 2004 10:16 PM, Blogger Jon said...

Your sarcasm is appreciated, but it's not as simple as disagreeing with him. It has to do with how DANGEROUS some of his ideologies and proposed policies are. There are many things that he promotes that are completely unharmful, but a handful of things are really scary. To me. Maybe they aren't to you, but I've been concerned for a long time about his "Patriot Act" and how much it intrudes on our privacy and some civil liberties under the banner of keeping us safe.

Now that the Republicans have a majority in the Senate and Congress it becomes easier for them to pass more dangerous policies.

At November 10, 2004 1:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The President is not a dictator. The Patriot Act is not "his." It was enacted by near unanimous bipartisan support including both senators and (if memory serves) every house rep. from Washington.

If you don't like it, let your elected leaders know. They can amend it. If parts of it are unconstitutional, sue the government. Just like every other piece of legislation out there.

At November 10, 2004 10:18 PM, Blogger Jon said...

But if one of the members of House and the Senate hadn't voted for it they'd have been outcast because they weren't patriotic. There was no way one of our reps could opt not to vote for that and have been re-elected. It was a political strongarming.

At November 10, 2004 11:46 PM, Blogger Glenn said...

Furthermore, it was actually important, both symbolically and practically that the government of this country pull together and act as one in reaction to the events of 9/11. As a result, everybody aligned behind the president so that he could maximize his effectiveness with a minimum of partisan squabbling.

However, that means that the so-called Patriot Act represents pretty much exactly what the controlling party of the time wanted. Since the Democratic members of government were all trying to be accomodating, you can't claim this fucking dismal set of laws reflects anything other than what Republican party leadership desired to enact. About the only meaningful limitation inserted into the bill is that some of the portions of the bill will expire in 2005 unless renewed.

At November 11, 2004 9:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I call bullshit. Feingold did vote against it, and won re-election handily. If politicians couldn't vote against it because their constituents wanted them to vote for it, then voting for it was the right thing for them to do, and they were not coerced into it.

And, again, if you don't like it, tell your reps and sens to change it! Sue the government if they enforce a law that is unconstitutional. Don't whine, ACT!

At November 11, 2004 11:13 AM, Blogger Glenn said...

Fortunately for me, Feingold is one of my reps, and as you say, he won re-election handily.

That said, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that voting against the bill would have been political suicide, or prevent anyone from winning a re-election bid, I said that our elected officials tried to pull together in a non-partisan fashion, (in the best interests of the country) and that the controlling party abused that temporary power to enact bad law.

As I'm sure you know, oh anonymous one, that party is still in power, and getting the enacted law removed is going to be pretty tough for the minority, since the Republicans clearly wanted the law the way it is, eh? Hell, just this year, they fought tooth and nail (successfully) to keep the library-spying provisions in the bill.

As for claims that the law is somehow the will of consituents? Now I call double-jeapordy bullshit. That law was passed in an amazingly short period. Only six weeks after 9/11, in fact. There was certainly no time to assemble any sort of broad-based groundswell of public opinion either for or against the bill. Hell, before it was enacted by the House, no one outside of the people drafting it even got to read it. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, one of three House Republicans to vote against it, voted against it in part because the House wasn't given copies in time to read them before the vote.

As far as judicial restraint, well, that takes a lot of time, as the bill needs to get struck down piece by piece. Some of that has already occurred, but since the same party probably gets to appoint more justices to a supreme court they already have a 5-4 majority in, it seems unlikely that they're going to be appointing anyone that strongly diagrees with their position on civil liberties, doesn't it?

At November 12, 2004 11:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am sorry to put words in your mouth. I hate that.

It can be difficult to challenge a law when most reps and sens support it. But most of this law will go away next year without repassage, and any Senator can call fillibuster. (Sorry also for the lousy #$#@#$ spelling.) Besides, the Patriot Act largely changed nothing about your civil liberties. Primarily, it revoked the infamous JG memo that prohibited the FBI from conducting an investigation based on information provided by the CIA. Most of the enforcement for which people cite the Patriot Act was already enforcable law or accepted police practice, it's just that with increased funding through homeland security the laws and behaviours could be acted on. (See Jon's friend who got questioned by the cops when photogaphing a dam. They could have done that legally before the Patriot Act, they just didn't have the money before the Patriot Act and Homeland Security.) The library spying bill is pretty much a joke. Most libraries will give you a card with the name you give them, no ID needed. The rest allow you to use the library, and get whatever info you want/need without checking anything out. Yeah, it's government spying on citizens. Yeah, it will have a chilling effect (probably small, but slippery slope and all) on persons seeking out non-mainstream information. But this is a fake lightning rod. All the energy put into fighting this business is wasted; it would be much better spent fighting restrictions on electronic data storage and transfer. But that's just me.

I agree that court action can take a long time, but it doesn't have to. For example, now that eleven states have passed constitutional amendments barring gay marriage (in states Kerry carried, BTW, what the fuck is that?), the issue is ripe for decision by the US supreme court to tell State and Federal officials to fuck off and stop legislating morality. This could happen literally within weeks. (May I suggest the 9th circuit for action.) The key will be in how the argument is presented to the Supremes. Yeah, conservatives hold a slim, mostly technical majority, but conservative justices pretty much detest government intrusion. Paint the issue correctly, and they will decide in a rational manner.

Anyway, as a conservative (well, libertarian, but we got no federal reps), I sympathize with your annoyance at being in the minority; I'm familiar with that feeling as Dems controlled white house, house and senate for much of the last century. The good news is, just as we are still around after that, we'll still be around after this.

Also, I wanted to apologize for coming off (being?) an ass about not whining. Talking about these issues is the first step towards action, and I applaud your discussion of it to raise awareness and develop your arguments. I just hate most of the meaningless babble that tends to follow along the lines of, "Oh, we must move to Canada. Oh, woe is me. Oh, I am alone in a country that is no longer mine." Fuck that noise. Talk, plan, ACT.

PS I call triple secret bullshit. =) That's probably the call sign for Skull and Bones...


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